Beyond Art Alone / Thomas Hirschhorn

Interview with the artist Thomas Hirschhorn

This interview delves into the more complex aspects of human relationships and their interaction with being and the surrounding environment. The artist expresses his preference for art that avoids ostentation and luxury, instead favouring universal materials and words—tools that are often underestimated. In this dialogue, we explore art as both a social study and an experience designed to leave a lasting impression on the observer and their way of thinking.

Words, interweaving meanings, and philosophical thoughts are widely present in your works. There is a strong appreciation for language and written expression. What led you to this specific stylistic choice, what strength do you see in it, and is there a precise connection to your background?

Yes, thoughts, texts, words are important, they can count, texts can make a difference, no real thought is not important. Therefore as example, “Dear World,” the recent wall text I wrote for “Masterful Attention Seekers” at MoCA Busan wants to address in a few words an urgent matter to me: How to stay resistant? How to stay human? How to stay disobedient. How not to forget that there is the possibility for seeking attention but also the possibility for giving attention? And how not to lose sight – in chasing after the latest social media trends – of the fact that the question of Attention is a philosophical one, as emphasized by Simone Weil? I wanted to bring it into the discussion with a quote of her: “Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity.” I think it is needed to keep reminding this when using Social Media in order to keep it human and not getting robotised.

Getting to know more about Thomas as an individual. What are your distinctive traits, something that you are passionate about (beyond artistic production), principles that define you, texts that are close to your heart, or even small everyday moments that you value greatly?

I understand your desire to know more about me, the individual. But there is nothing more really to share than what I try to express in my work of art, that is the individual. Because everything – which is me, everything which constitutes me, and everything I am competent for – is to get inside my work. I am passionated about my work as artist, I do not have another passion. The beautiful thing about being an artist is that you own a tool – the tool ‘Art’ – that you can use to express what you think, what you feel, how you see the world, how you engage with reality, and who you are living in the time you are living in. There is no other information about me more interesting, more outstanding, more distinctive, more special than what you can reach from my work. I think it does not help you to know me better if I say: I love skiing, I really do?

“I am convinced that exhibitions, both making and visiting them, will remain an important form, alongside others, for engaging with the unknown, encountering, and discovering.”

Thomas Hirschhorn, «M.E.S.S.S.Y.» (2023) Dvir Gallery, Brussels​, 2023 Courtesy of the artist and Dvir Gallery Photos Anna Kowalska
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Schema Art/Public Space» (2016-2022) 120 x 200 cm. Courtesy of the artist
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Art=Shelter» (2022) Art Station Dubulti, Jurmala Courtesy of the artist
Thomas Hirschhorn, «MEME (3)» (2023) Studio view Courtesy of the artist and Gladstone Gallery New York

Speaking of the theme of art as interaction with space and with the Other… What do you think of performance art? Do you consider it an expression of maximum contact with the audience, or do you prefer interactions that are more contained in terms of dynamism but with highly impactful and stimulating concepts?

‘Performance art’ is a term which I do not use. To do art, each kind of art, is a performance and I do not want to reduce it to a specific description of a kind of art, as ‘installation art’ which is as well a lazy term. I want people to be implicated in my work and I think somebody who does a performance will want the same: Implication. Implication means: being touched, thinking about, being interested, being curious, wanting to know more, being disturbed, spending time with the work, wanting to see the details, being obsessed, coming back to check again, wanting to know more about, and of course – the ultimate hope – being changed.

The material choice changes the impact of a message a lot. What did you perceive right away in everyday life materials, in the use of elements that are often overlooked, especially in today’s world? Is there a specific critique behind this?

The question of the materiality of a work of art is important to me. I utilise common materials, ones that everybody knows and uses – not solely for the purpose of creating art. My materials must be universal, inexpensive, non-intimidating, readily available, without added value. Therefore, for example, cardboard is a fantastic material. This material reminds us of the extensive use of cardboard in the realm of transportation and delivery. Using cardboard isn’t necessarily a critique in itself, but rather a decision to engage with and utilise the reality of everyday materiality, expressing my willingness to pay the price for this choice of material.

“My materials must be universal, inexpensive, non-intimidating, readily available, without added value.”

Thomas Hirschhorn, «Dear World,» (2024) Exhibition views “Masterful Attention Seekers” MoCA Busan, South Korea; 2024 Courtesy of the artist and MoCA Busan
Break-Throught (2013)
Thomas Hirschhorn, «PROTOTYPES», 2023 Exhibition view “Custom Cars Culture” UncleBrother, Hancock, NY, 2023 Courtesy of the artist and Gladstone Gallery New York
Thomas Hirschhorn, «POST (20)» (2023) Studio view Courtesy of the artist and Gladstone Gallery New York
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Dear World,» (2024) Exhibition views “Masterful Attention Seekers” MoCA Busan, South Korea; 2024 Courtesy of the artist and MoCA Busan

“Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it..”, 2023 strongly expresses this idea of living art that triggers a whirlwind in the viewer. Can you expose, without filters, what touches you most and bothers you about this social bubble we find ourselves in? What would you like to see highly debated and normalised in today’s social, political and artistic sphere?

With “Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it,” I aimed to give form to the question: How can the analog exhibition space confront the digital world? I believe social media represents both progress and a significant challenge in all domains. Therefore, it’s an element to be considered in art, presenting a problematic to explore within artistic practice. It’s the artist who decides to engage with and incorporate social media into their work. Personally, social media – in creating my work – forms a part of the ‘Aesthetics’ element: other components include ‘Love,’ ‘Philosophy,’ and ‘Politics.’ However, I am particularly interested in examining how social media interacts with, amplifies, and influences the reception of art; it can play a crucial role in shaping the reception of art. I want to explore the question: Can an interest in others, or an exchange with others, be quantified? Or is it the intensity of the exchange with a few others that fosters learning, progress, evolution, and enrichment? Can a large number of followers or ‘likes’ – the issue with numbers is, they always need to grow – create this intensity? Therefore, I am convinced that exhibitions, both making and visiting them, will remain an important form, alongside others, for engaging with the unknown, encountering, and discovering. I’m not specifically referring to art exhibitions here, but all types of exhibitions, whether environmental, technical, historical, etc. I’m always amazed to observe how many people pay attention to things, whether it’s reading a text, listening to audio, or engaging with exhibitions. I believe the physical aspect of exhibitions creates both attraction and resistance towards the form of ‘Exhibition.’ Fortunately, this was evident with “Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.” In general, attending an exhibition, stepping out of the ‘social bubble,’ always involves a confrontation between the physical and intellectual capacities of humans.

Can you anticipate a particular project you are working on and one (if already set) that you have fixed as a future goal?

I am currently working on a body of work I call “Model for a Monument.” It consists of a series of models addressing the phenomenon or issue that I increasingly observe and find intriguing – the phenomenon or problematic of falling monuments. The destruction, damage, dismantling, or transformation into ruins of monuments has been occurring since the inception of monuments themselves. While awareness of this recurring phenomenon is crucial, I’ve noticed a shortening of the time span between construction and deconstruction, for multiple reasons.
My position on this phenomenon is clear: the course of history that ‘occurs’ is the very expression of what is ‘history.’ Monuments that must fall are those erected to celebrate tyrants, dictators, oppressors, as well as individuals who initiated actions, initially extraordinary perhaps, but which have in some way or another exercised unjustifiable violence, even if it was deemed justifiable in the past. My research and works for “Model for a Monument” aim to emphasise – through the form of a model – the inherent logic of self-disappearance present in all monuments, especially those based on power, ideology, domination, or intimidation. This logic dictates that sooner or later, they must fall, disappear, be dismantled. With “Model for a Monument,” I seek to specify and demonstrate that the logic of destruction of a monument is already inscribed in its reason for being erected, in its aesthetics, materiality, and dimension. Furthermore, my artistic position has always been defined by the assertion that only a monument erected out of love can  can last forever. That’s why in the past, among other works in public space, I’ve created a series of four Monuments (“Spinoza Monument,” 1999, Amsterdam; “Deleuze Monument,” 2000, Avignon; “Bataille Monument,” 2002, Kassel; “Gramsci Monument,” 2013, New York) – out of love. I created them because I love Spinoza, Deleuze, Bataille, Gramsci; no one commissioned me to create a monument for them. These monuments, along with all my other works in public spaces thus far (a total of 75), are all ‘precarious works,’ that means interventions limited in time, but experiences that seek to extend their intensity beyond mere sustainability – as objects – , aspiring towards eternity.

Thomas Hirschhorn, «Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.» (2024)
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.» (2024)
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.» (2024) Exhibition views Gladstone Gallery, New York, 2024 Courtesy Gladstone Gallery, New York Photos David Regen
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.» (2024)
Thomas Hirschhorn, «Fake it, Fake it – till you Fake it.» (2024)

Beyond Art Alone : The Human Implication

Credits:

Artist: Thomas Hirschhorn / @thomashirschhorn_official
Interview: Annalisa Fabbrucci / @annalisa_fabbrucci
Editor: Maria Abramenko  / @mariabramenko

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